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Post by Boasting Toast on Apr 2, 2016 6:44:01 GMT
Well, it's that time. I have updated the stagelist, added a few new rules, removed the infinite ban, and last, but not least, banned Red Riding Hood. Wtf is this stage list? Please tell me this is a late April Fools joke, this is the worst thing I've ever seen. This is the stagelist I ran during my netplay weeklies and it worked pretty fine, even if people just played on Romeo most of the time anyways. I made a stagelist discussion thread a while back and there was little discussion, but the stages I chose seem to have had a good reception from everyone. If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears.
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Post by m0th64 on Apr 2, 2016 7:19:43 GMT
Wtf is this stage list? Please tell me this is a late April Fools joke, this is the worst thing I've ever seen. This is the stagelist I ran during my netplay weeklies and it worked pretty fine, even if people just played on Romeo most of the time anyways. I made a stagelist discussion thread a while back and there was little discussion, but the stages I chose seem to have had a good reception from everyone. If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears. Can you point me to the stage discussion thread? I'd have commented on it if I'd seen it, lol. I'm gonna try and name off some of my problems with this list:
-Three neutrals is a terrible idea. It was tested in Smash games and it centralized way too much power on whoever had the second ban. Plus, the lack of stage variety and only having one strike meant that certain characters always got stuck with a bad stage game 1 and then lost counterpick advantage. -Giant's Table is the most jank stage on this entire list. There are way too many busted items on this stage. The royal crown is broken and the gravity wand is a free 0-Slam that hits from the other side of the stage. Plus, all the low platforms wreck any characters with horizontal combos/slams. Low platforms also destroys any characters that rely on wall attacks (Pinnochio, Robin Hood, etc.) since it forces them to double jump in order to reach high enough on the wall not to wall dash. If Gepetto's is a CP, so is Giant's Table. -Speaking of which, why is Gepetto's a CP? It's the most neutral non-Romeo Drive stage on this list imo. It has a couple of platforms/hazards but not enough to break any characters and the items on this stage are balanced. -Having Medieval Chef and Giant's Table as 2/3 neutrals wrecks certain characters. All the problems that Giant's Table causes are the exact same problems that are present in Medieval Chef (Abundance of items, low platforms, etc.) so for the characters that don't like those things it's now completely impossible to get even a neutral start. It would be like having Battlefield and Miivarse both as neutral picks in Smash 4 and then saying you can only strike one of them. IMO, if we have to only have three neutrals it should be Romeo Drive (half platforms, half flat) Medieval Chef (Uneven with low platforms/items/hazards) and then either a flatter stage than Romeo (So Gepetto's or, god forbid, Mine Cart) or a stage with high platforms, low item appearance (Beanstalk, Dragon's Hall or maybe Fat Boy). -Romeo Drive should be considered for suspect testing in 5-stock, since now there's time for portals to open fully and one portal gives you a guaranteed ice wand just for stepping into it, and ice wand and metal potion are both broken. I still think it's fine but it's worth debating -Why did Trophy Room go from a neutral on the last two stage lists to banned? Afaik I was the only one to ever argue against it and even I only ever said it should be moved to CP and replaced with a new neutral. And why is Dragon's Hall banned? We play on Dragon's Hall all the time here and it's always seemed fine. Few items, most of which can be avoided, platforms that are reasonable, etc. I've never seen anyone call for banning it.
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Post by Boasting Toast on Apr 2, 2016 7:45:58 GMT
This is the stagelist I ran during my netplay weeklies and it worked pretty fine, even if people just played on Romeo most of the time anyways. I made a stagelist discussion thread a while back and there was little discussion, but the stages I chose seem to have had a good reception from everyone. If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears. Can you point me to the stage discussion thread? I'd have commented on it if I'd seen it, lol. I'm gonna try and name off some of my problems with this list:
-Three neutrals is a terrible idea. It was tested in Smash games and it centralized way too much power on whoever had the second ban. Plus, the lack of stage variety and only having one strike meant that certain characters always got stuck with a bad stage game 1 and then lost counterpick advantage. -Giant's Table is the most jank stage on this entire list. There are way too many busted items on this stage. The royal crown is broken and the gravity wand is a free 0-Slam that hits from the other side of the stage. Plus, all the low platforms wreck any characters with horizontal combos/slams. Low platforms also destroys any characters that rely on wall attacks (Pinnochio, Robin Hood, etc.) since it forces them to double jump in order to reach high enough on the wall not to wall dash. If Gepetto's is a CP, so is Giant's Table. -Speaking of which, why is Gepetto's a CP? It's the most neutral non-Romeo Drive stage on this list imo. It has a couple of platforms/hazards but not enough to break any characters and the items on this stage are balanced. -Having Medieval Chef and Giant's Table as 2/3 neutrals wrecks certain characters. All the problems that Giant's Table causes are the exact same problems that are present in Medieval Chef (Abundance of items, low platforms, etc.) so for the characters that don't like those things it's now completely impossible to get even a neutral start. It would be like having Battlefield and Miivarse both as neutral picks in Smash 4 and then saying you can only strike one of them. IMO, if we have to only have three neutrals it should be Romeo Drive (half platforms, half flat) Medieval Chef (Uneven with low platforms/items/hazards) and then either a flatter stage than Romeo (So Gepetto's or, god forbid, Mine Cart) or a stage with high platforms, low item appearance (Beanstalk, Dragon's Hall or maybe Fat Boy). -Romeo Drive should be considered for suspect testing in Bo5, since now there's time for portals to open fully and one portal gives you a guaranteed ice wand just for stepping into it, and ice wand and metal potion are both broken. I still think it's fine but it's worth debating -Why did Trophy Room go from a neutral on the last two stage lists to banned? Afaik I was the only one to ever argue against it and even I only ever said it should be moved to CP and replaced with a new neutral. And why is Dragon's Hall banned? We play on Dragon's Hall all the time here and it's always seemed fine. Few items, most of which can be avoided, platforms that are reasonable, etc. I've never seen anyone call for banning it. To address a few of your points, I agree that Romeo is looking sus af after playing against a certain Puss main that loves Ice Wands and Metal Potions. All I recall you saying was "I've wanted Trophy Room banned since I unlocked it." That being said, I think banning it completely was a mistake, I originally did it because of the walljump stalling but with the excessive stalling rule in place that shouldn't be an issue. I think I will make it CP due to the disruptive trophies. My reasoning for not including Dragon's Hall is it's a very large stage that nobody ever plays on. I wanted to keep the stagelist as brief as possible so I deemed in unnecessary due to nobody really caring about it. Probably not a very good reason now that I think about it.
All of this being said, I think this looks like a better list:
Romeo (Neutral) Fat Boy (Neutral) Medieval (Neutral) Gepetto's (Neutral) Bean Stalk (Neutral) Dragon's Hall (CP) Giant's (CP) Trophy (CP)
I think the neutral list is well balanced having 2 flat stages, 2 platform oriented stages, and 1 mixed. The CPs all give clear advantages to certain characters as well. Good?
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Post by m0th64 on Apr 2, 2016 7:55:58 GMT
Can you point me to the stage discussion thread? I'd have commented on it if I'd seen it, lol. I'm gonna try and name off some of my problems with this list:
-Three neutrals is a terrible idea. It was tested in Smash games and it centralized way too much power on whoever had the second ban. Plus, the lack of stage variety and only having one strike meant that certain characters always got stuck with a bad stage game 1 and then lost counterpick advantage. -Giant's Table is the most jank stage on this entire list. There are way too many busted items on this stage. The royal crown is broken and the gravity wand is a free 0-Slam that hits from the other side of the stage. Plus, all the low platforms wreck any characters with horizontal combos/slams. Low platforms also destroys any characters that rely on wall attacks (Pinnochio, Robin Hood, etc.) since it forces them to double jump in order to reach high enough on the wall not to wall dash. If Gepetto's is a CP, so is Giant's Table. -Speaking of which, why is Gepetto's a CP? It's the most neutral non-Romeo Drive stage on this list imo. It has a couple of platforms/hazards but not enough to break any characters and the items on this stage are balanced. -Having Medieval Chef and Giant's Table as 2/3 neutrals wrecks certain characters. All the problems that Giant's Table causes are the exact same problems that are present in Medieval Chef (Abundance of items, low platforms, etc.) so for the characters that don't like those things it's now completely impossible to get even a neutral start. It would be like having Battlefield and Miivarse both as neutral picks in Smash 4 and then saying you can only strike one of them. IMO, if we have to only have three neutrals it should be Romeo Drive (half platforms, half flat) Medieval Chef (Uneven with low platforms/items/hazards) and then either a flatter stage than Romeo (So Gepetto's or, god forbid, Mine Cart) or a stage with high platforms, low item appearance (Beanstalk, Dragon's Hall or maybe Fat Boy). -Romeo Drive should be considered for suspect testing in Bo5, since now there's time for portals to open fully and one portal gives you a guaranteed ice wand just for stepping into it, and ice wand and metal potion are both broken. I still think it's fine but it's worth debating -Why did Trophy Room go from a neutral on the last two stage lists to banned? Afaik I was the only one to ever argue against it and even I only ever said it should be moved to CP and replaced with a new neutral. And why is Dragon's Hall banned? We play on Dragon's Hall all the time here and it's always seemed fine. Few items, most of which can be avoided, platforms that are reasonable, etc. I've never seen anyone call for banning it. To address a few of your points, I agree that Romeo is looking sus af after playing against a certain Puss main that loves Ice Wands and Metal Potions. All I recall you saying was "I've wanted Trophy Room banned since I unlocked it." That being said, I think banning it completely was a mistake, I originally did it because of the walljump stalling but with the excessive stalling rule in place that shouldn't be an issue. I think I will make it CP due to the disruptive trophies. My reasoning for not including Dragon's Hall is it's a very large stage that nobody ever plays on. I wanted to keep the stagelist as brief as possible so I deemed in unnecessary due to nobody really caring about it. Probably not a very good reason now that I think about it.
All of this being said, I think this looks like a better list:
Romeo (Neutral) Fat Boy (Neutral) Medieval (Neutral) Gepetto's (Neutral) Bean Stalk (Neutral) Dragon's Hall (CP) Giant's (CP) Trophy (CP)
I think the neutral list is well balanced having 2 flat stages, 2 platform oriented stages, and 1 mixed. The CPs all give clear advantages to certain characters as well. Good? That list looks crispy af to me. I wanna see what everyone else thinks before pulling the trigger on a complete stage overhaul but that works fine imo.
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Post by Boasting Toast on Apr 2, 2016 8:39:31 GMT
Seeing as the old stagelist is clearly inferior, I'll add the new one to the OP and if anyone has any discussion to add they can go right ahead.
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redridingshrek
Junior Slammer
SHRE vs SHRE
Posts: 66
Main: Puss in Boots
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Post by redridingshrek on Apr 2, 2016 12:08:56 GMT
Can you point me to the stage discussion thread? I'd have commented on it if I'd seen it, lol. I'm gonna try and name off some of my problems with this list:
-Three neutrals is a terrible idea. It was tested in Smash games and it centralized way too much power on whoever had the second ban. Plus, the lack of stage variety and only having one strike meant that certain characters always got stuck with a bad stage game 1 and then lost counterpick advantage. -Giant's Table is the most jank stage on this entire list. There are way too many busted items on this stage. The royal crown is broken and the gravity wand is a free 0-Slam that hits from the other side of the stage. Plus, all the low platforms wreck any characters with horizontal combos/slams. Low platforms also destroys any characters that rely on wall attacks (Pinnochio, Robin Hood, etc.) since it forces them to double jump in order to reach high enough on the wall not to wall dash. If Gepetto's is a CP, so is Giant's Table. -Speaking of which, why is Gepetto's a CP? It's the most neutral non-Romeo Drive stage on this list imo. It has a couple of platforms/hazards but not enough to break any characters and the items on this stage are balanced. -Having Medieval Chef and Giant's Table as 2/3 neutrals wrecks certain characters. All the problems that Giant's Table causes are the exact same problems that are present in Medieval Chef (Abundance of items, low platforms, etc.) so for the characters that don't like those things it's now completely impossible to get even a neutral start. It would be like having Battlefield and Miivarse both as neutral picks in Smash 4 and then saying you can only strike one of them. IMO, if we have to only have three neutrals it should be Romeo Drive (half platforms, half flat) Medieval Chef (Uneven with low platforms/items/hazards) and then either a flatter stage than Romeo (So Gepetto's or, god forbid, Mine Cart) or a stage with high platforms, low item appearance (Beanstalk, Dragon's Hall or maybe Fat Boy). -Romeo Drive should be considered for suspect testing in Bo5, since now there's time for portals to open fully and one portal gives you a guaranteed ice wand just for stepping into it, and ice wand and metal potion are both broken. I still think it's fine but it's worth debating -Why did Trophy Room go from a neutral on the last two stage lists to banned? Afaik I was the only one to ever argue against it and even I only ever said it should be moved to CP and replaced with a new neutral. And why is Dragon's Hall banned? We play on Dragon's Hall all the time here and it's always seemed fine. Few items, most of which can be avoided, platforms that are reasonable, etc. I've never seen anyone call for banning it. To address a few of your points, I agree that Romeo is looking sus af after playing against a certain Puss main that loves Ice Wands and Metal Potions. All I recall you saying was "I've wanted Trophy Room banned since I unlocked it." That being said, I think banning it completely was a mistake, I originally did it because of the walljump stalling but with the excessive stalling rule in place that shouldn't be an issue. I think I will make it CP due to the disruptive trophies. My reasoning for not including Dragon's Hall is it's a very large stage that nobody ever plays on. I wanted to keep the stagelist as brief as possible so I deemed in unnecessary due to nobody really caring about it. Probably not a very good reason now that I think about it.
All of this being said, I think this looks like a better list:
Romeo (Neutral) Fat Boy (Neutral) Medieval (Neutral) Gepetto's (Neutral) Bean Stalk (Neutral) Dragon's Hall (CP) Giant's (CP) Trophy (CP)
I think the neutral list is well balanced having 2 flat stages, 2 platform oriented stages, and 1 mixed. The CPs all give clear advantages to certain characters as well. Good?I approve this list, it looks quite nice But like you both are saying: Romeo Drive is quite broken imo. I dont like how you easily can exploit items and portals on that map like that certain Puss main does (cant remember his name ;P). If only the portal were there it would be fine if not awesome, but now when the lower left portals appear the game can easily be an itemfest. Beanstalk is a also really cool map but imo the items kills that map too. These flying "mines" or whatever it is imo gamebreaking. When I have played this map with friends where I live i always just camp up there on the leaf (where the items spawn) with tons of mines and throws them down when theyre trying to do something about it. Also the items respawn really fast actually. I havent played this map so much because of this but I may be wrong, it can maybe be easily avoided? I havent played Dragons Hall so much but I cant really come up with a good reason why it shoulnt be a neutral. It looks quite neutral in all ways excluding the chandeliers.
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Post by lollilwitch on Jul 8, 2016 17:23:36 GMT
Why red hood is banned?
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Post by Rubbermaid on Jul 8, 2016 18:16:15 GMT
Because Toast mained RRH.
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Post by lollilwitch on Jul 8, 2016 22:12:57 GMT
Because Toast mained RRH. What's about cases when rrh plays against rrh?
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Post by Boasting Toast on Jul 8, 2016 23:41:09 GMT
Because Toast mained RRH. What's about cases when rrh plays against rrh? I mean if two dudes want to gentleman's clause to Red Riding Hood dittos then it's at the discretion of the TO. Idk who in their right mind would wanna play that stressful ass MU tho lmao, idc if I'm the best RRH I am staying the fuck away from that mirror
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Post by Rubbermaid on Aug 10, 2016 14:25:39 GMT
This is a very cautious suggestion, but I think Bell Tower could be one of the most best stages in the game. I know it has the viking helmet, but in my experience it is harder to get a slam with the helmet (especially on a stage as open as Bell Tower) than it would be to get a slam with a gravity wand on Fat Boy / Giant's Table, both of which are currently legal. Its items are otherwise inoffensive, and it has a nice neutral layout.
Perhaps allowing the viking helmet is too much for people, but I really think that the stage is less cheap than most of the current stage list.
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Post by Boasting Toast on Aug 10, 2016 18:52:37 GMT
This is a very cautious suggestion, but I think Bell Tower could be one of the most best stages in the game. I know it has the viking helmet, but in my experience it is harder to get a slam with the helmet (especially on a stage as open as Bell Tower) than it would be to get a slam with a gravity wand on Fat Boy / Giant's Table, both of which are currently legal. Its items are otherwise inoffensive, and it has a nice neutral layout.
Perhaps allowing the viking helmet is too much for people, but I really think that the stage is less cheap than most of the current stage list. My issue with the stage is I have been locked out of bounds upon being slammed every time I've played on it, which I will admit, is like, 3 times. I would get locked in Quasimodo's bell set at the top of the map, my only escape being grabbed from the outside. I would be open to testing it with others over netplay to explore it's options as far as legality goes.
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Post by Boasting Toast on Jan 2, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
Ruleset has been updated as of 1/2/2017
Mine Cart has been removed from the legal stagelist due to spawn trapping. Romeo Drive has taken it's place now that the portals have been disabled.
The Red Riding Hood ban has been lifted. We understand that this is a very big change, and we need to work together to make the transition as smooth as possible. Like any ruleset, this is still up to the TO's discretion, though we are working towards eventually having RRH as a universally legal character.
Myself and the rest of the BR will be writing an official doubles ruleset later.
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sirensarecalling
New Slammer
You either die a Luna, or live long enough to see yourself become a bad Gingy
Posts: 12
Main: Luna
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Post by sirensarecalling on Jan 3, 2017 5:28:34 GMT
Ruleset has been updated as of 1/2/2017
Mine Cart has been removed from the legal stagelist due to spawn trapping. Romeo Drive has taken it's place now that the portals have been disabled.
The Red Riding Hood ban has been lifted. We understand that this is a very big change, and we need to work together to make the transition as smooth as possible. Like any ruleset, this is still up to the TO's discretion, though we are working towards eventually having RRH as a universally legal character.
Myself and the rest of the BR will be writing an official doubles ruleset later. what've you done
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Post by brendog2 on Jan 9, 2017 1:27:45 GMT
I have a question. Why are infinites banned in shrek super slam but not in smash bros?
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