New Tech With Soup-Cancelled Shields, Pls Help Explore

[m0th64]

Note: This doesn't work with all characters. So far I've only started testing Robin Hood, RRH and Captain Hook. That's why I need help exploring this.

Okay, so by now we're all familiar with souper grabbing, I assume. For anyone who isn't, if you execute another attack within a set number of frames after landing a grab, you can interrupt the grab animation into another attack. Well, for a while I assumed souper cancelling into a shield was useless, and for certain characters, it is. But not for all of them.

By cancelling shield into grab with Captain Hook, you will pick up the opponent, then immediately drop them. However, unlike a non-souper grab release, this actually leaves the opponent in FRONT of Hook, rather than behind him, meaning that he can now cancel a successful grab into a guaranteed hit with any attack that can be executed out of shield. What this means is:

1. He can guarantee his (extremely laggy) special off of a grab, which is faster and has a larger hitbox, as well as hits through shield. This is beneficial because his uncharged special puts the opponent in knockdown right in front of Captain Hook, allowing him to follow up easily into an AAB ender (which hits out of knockdown) which then confirms into another attack, making this a useful combo tool. 

2. He can guarantee his combo starter (or jab, if you prefer to call it that) on an opponent in shield. I THINK grab is also faster than jab 1 anyway. Then, he can begin combos. Off of a grab. 

3. HE CAN REGRAB THE OPPONENT. Captain Hook can hypothetically get an infinite grab-release-regrab by doing this (Although it doesn't actually do any damage, it's more just a stalling thing). He also backs up a little bit every time he releases and regrabs, meaning he can use it to drag opponents into a corner with him. 

I need to see what other characters this works with. RRH and Robin Hood still both drop opponents behind them, meaning this doesn't give either of them anything useful. I haven't tested anyone else yet.

Edit: I've tested the entire cast on souper-grab release jabs, specials and regrabs. Feel free to test other attacks or options. The characters who can do them are:

Captain Hook (See above.)
Prince Charming (Gets all three. Unsurprising, as he's a Captain Hook clone anyway.)
Quasimodo (Gets all three, can convert massive damage off of special.)
Dronkey (Works with jab and regrab, not special. Beneficial as jab was hard to land before)
Shrek (Gets all three. Crumpet will be happy, new Shrek Tech.)
Huff N Puff Wolf (Gets all three. that guy who's absolutely pissed off will be happy.) 

I believe that's everyone, unless I've forgotten someone. Gingerbread Man and Cyclops could already grab release into special out-of-shield because theirs hit behind them and they don't get anything new doing it this way. Again, feel free to test new stuff with this. I didn't bother testing anti-airs OOS on grab released opponents, even though I know even some characters who couldn't get jabs or regrabs can get those, just because they're probably mostly inferior or equal to the plain souper anti-airs anyway. But, you know, Dronkey's souper anti air randomly becomes a multihit so maybe these have other cool properties worth looking into. 

[that guy who's absolutely pissed off]

This is like Wolf's JASG. Remember how his is weird and doesn't allow combo-throw things because it auto releases into his first jab? Shielded Soup Grab opens up his ABB (which you can't do off a JASG normally) and possibly his special. I'll try it out when I get a chance.

[that guy who's absolutely pissed off]

This doesn't actually have anything to do with Soup grabs, as the shield input has to be done after the grab connects, not before. That's if I'm understanding correctly.

Also, you can buffer shield during the start of the grab and it'll do this. You can do the regrab easily by doing X - Hold R - X - Release and rehold R and repeat. Possible to use this as a failsafe for failed Soup grabs, perhaps?

[m0th64]

Oct 23, 2015 12:12:11 GMT that guy who's absolutely pissed off said:

This doesn't actually have anything to do with Soup grabs, as the shield input has to be done after the grab connects, not before. That's if I'm understanding correctly.

Also, you can buffer shield during the start of the grab and it'll do this. You can do the regrab easily by doing X - Hold R - X - Release and rehold R and repeat. Possible to use this as a failsafe for failed Soup grabs, perhaps?

The frame window on the shield input is a little bit too specific for it to not be considered similar tech. You have to do the shield input before the grab animation is completed and if you're off on the timing you have to wait for the entire grab animation to finish, at which point shield releasing will leave the opponent behind you, not in front. You'd have to have the reaction times of a god to do it in response to a whiffed souper grab, especially since whiffing a lot of souper grabs, such as yasg, will oftentimes just result in a different souper grab coming out. 

[that guy who's absolutely pissed off]

Do you mean grab animation or the pick-up animation? As far as I can tell the shield input can only be done a number of frames after the grab actually connects (Soup grabs are done BEFORE the grab connects). This is why RRH's always releases behind her; her pick-up animation after the grab connects is very quick so the opponent is already on top of her when they're released.

[m0th64]

I'm not talking about inputs at all, I'm talking execution windows. Souper grabs don't actually execute until after the opponent has already been grabbed either. The execution timing on grab cancelled shields and souper grabs is almost identical and it has the same outcome, even if the input timing is a little different.