Wait til you see the new tier list we've been working on lmao
I don't know, I feel Puss should be at least top 5, or maybe I just suck with Anthrax, Black Knight and the other characters I mentioned.
Puss has been on a steady plummet for the last few months. His moveset allows for very few combos, and despite having good frame data, he gets very small rewards for winning neutral and he cannot follow up off his air grab, which is extremely detrimental. Oh, and his Slam sucks too.
Post by RetroGamersGuru on Nov 20, 2016 8:06:23 GMT
I'm guessing that you, Toast, are saying that Puss is going to be seen as lower? Besides, aside from maybe Anthrax (I really don't know that character), his position is about correct.
Mr. "The Lunatic", Dronkey has some of the best aerial movement in the entire game if not the best. He can stay in the air almost twice as long as other characters with is air attack acting like a third jump and his air dash attack keeping him at a great height. He can also infinite off of any air throw, which makes him a threat on any part of the stage (an essential point for any top tier like Fiona, Gingerbread Man, and maybe even Luna at this point with the work that Glacey is putting into her development). The Black Knight and Pinocchio have very elaborate punish games off of a grab and are very consistent with them. The Black Knight can infinite off of the ground (he has to use a wall sometimes, but he can usually rack up more damage off of more openings than Puss can. Pinocchio's grab game most of the time is a 0-slam rather than a 1 move infinite, but he usually racks up most of the damage with anti-airs into a full-charged special on the ground for a full slam punish. Both characters' slams are hard to avoid if you don't have platforms to help.
Now as for Puss in Boots, most of his strengths pretty much rely on the neutral game. He has good range and can beat or trade numerous moves (which is why he might win the head to head with the Black Knight). Now Toast outlined most of Puss's weaknesses as a character. Puss's moves when they hit in the neutral can put him at a safe distance to not get punished. On the flip side, he goes too far to get a punish himself since most of them don't have enough hitstun to allow this. He does decent damage off of most stray hits which is why in the banned infinite meta he was a strong character. But since many characters can infinite or 0-slam off of 1 opening consistently, this puts pressure on Puss in Boots to not mess up in the neutral. If Puss's neutral game was polarizing and shut down basically the whole cast without the punish game, then he could've been top 5, but it isn't. Other characters can still do work and have access to their own punishes. That being said, Puss does have punishes where he can get 1/2 a meter off an opening, and he does have 0-slam punishes (I think I found a one where it only involves a ground grab and not full charge special first). However, many involve a ground grab and the wall (which limits the character).
All in all, the usual argument for these characters being above Puss is that they have more infinites/0-slam punishes that are more consistent than Puss's and that his good frame data and neutral is not enough to justify putting him above these other characters. I can't really provide input on Anthrax's reasoning, but I hope I answered your question otherwise.
I have had this game since I was 7 and really enjoyed playing it. I recently revisited the game when I decide to show it to my younger brother. I was surprised how much I remembered from the game and how complex the game could get once you look past the simple triple A hits and B smashes. I was MORE surprised when I found out how this game was noticed again but in a more competitive way, something I never imagined would happen. Anyways I reckon myself a pretty decent player and was wondering how to join these Shrek Super Slam tournaments?
(Shield Drop Infinite Dronkey Works) SS: 0) Red Riding Hood S: 1) Gingerbread Man, 2) Fiona, 3) Dronkey A: 4) Luna, 5) Robin Hood A-: 6) Pinocchio, 7) Prince Charming, 8) Captain Hook, 9) Black Knight B: 10) Fiona Ogre 11) G-Nome C: 12) Humpty Dumpty, 13) Shrek, 14) Quasimodo, 15) Huff n' Puff Wolf, 16) Anthrax D: 17) Puss in Boots, 18) Cyclops, 19) Donkey
(If Dronkey ends up with no True Infinites) SS: 0) Red Riding Hood S: 1) Gingerbread Man, 2) Fiona A: 3) Luna, 4) Dronkey, 5) Robin Hood A-: 6) Pinocchio, 7) Prince Charming, 8) Captain Hook, 9) Black Knight B: 10) Fiona Ogre, 11) G-Nome C: 12) Humpty Dumpty, 13) Shrek, 14) Quasimodo, 15) Huff n' Puff Wolf, 16) Anthrax D: 17) Puss in Boots, 18) Cyclops, 19) Donkey
Characters within the same tier are close enough to each other where an argument for one over the other can still be made. Recommended viability ends goes from A tier and above with S tier being at the front of the metagame. Complete viability at the top level's current metagame ends at the A- tier. B tier is close enough to where meta development could possibly help their viability while worst case scenario can cause the occasional upsets and decent results. C tier is where you have to be significantly better than the opponent if faced against a S tier character. D tier means you have to read the person's entire soul to win against a S tier character.
(Shield Drop Infinite Dronkey Works) SS: 0) Red Riding Hood S: 1) Gingerbread Man, 2) Fiona, 3) Dronkey
(If Dronkey ends up with no True Infinites) SS: 0) Red Riding Hood S: 1) Gingerbread Man, 2) Fiona A: 3) Luna, 4) Dronkey, 5) Robin Hood
Why Did Dronkey go below Fiona? Dronkey still counters Fiona heavily imo. also I think there is an infinite we have yet to explore, and this time It's pretty much got no endlag... Anti-air -> Aerial dash attack. Repeat. it's difficult but might work. I'm hopeful for the most part on the shield drop though. Dronkey is still the second best in the game imo (excluding that banned little bitch) due to jumps, mobility and fire projectiles. (And their infinites ofc)